'F****** crazy': Joe Rogan's podcast takes serious turn as podcaster accuses biotech billionaire of playing God

Joe Rogan raised ethical questions about de-extincting animals after an engineering company reintroduced the dire wolf after it vanished 12,000 years ago.

Rogan had Colossal Biosciences CEO Ben Lamm on his podcast Monday, where he asked the billionaire about skeptics who say he is 'playing God.'

Colossal scientists extracted DNA from dire wolf fossils, reassembled its full genetic code (or genome), then compared that with the genome of its closest living relative (the gray wolf) to pick out the differences.

Once they identified gene variants that are specific to the dire wolf, they made 20 different edits to the gray wolf genome to make it match the dire wolf's as closely as possible, then used it to grow an egg cell that was implanted into a surrogate. 

Rogan said that if he were grilling the CEO, he would ask: 'What right do you have to invade the natural process of nature and to inject your curiosity and your ability to create new life?'

The CEO said that humans have become the apex predator of the world, essentially changing everything we see around us.

'We overfish the ocean, we overhunt something,' said Lamm.

'In the case of the [Tasmanian tiger], the Australian government put a bounty on its head and killed it off. We cut down the rainforest. Every time we drink hydrogenated water, we're playing God on some level.'

Researchers from the UK's Cambridge University have argued that it is 'morally wrong to recreate and resurrect species' due to the risk of 'miscarriage, stillbirth, early death, genetic abnormality and chronic disease' during the process. 

On Monday, Colossal Biosciences announced it had successfully birthed three dire wolves, naming them Romulus, Remus and Khaleesi. Made famous by the popular HBO series Game of Thrones, the ancient species went extinct 12,500 years ago. 

The reason for their disappearance is unclear, but scientists think it may have been triggered by the loss of their large prey, which might have been overhunted.

Rogan was stunned by the achievement, saying: 'Ladies and gentleman, prepare yourself because this is truly f****** crazy.'

Lamm then showed pictures of the three pups, explaining that the animals are not going back into the wild. 

The trio is now five months, they were born in October, but the CEO said he and his team were surprised by the results. 

'We didn't know this, they have this beautiful like mane-like quality to them,' said Lamm. And when they're babies, their fur almost feels like polar bears. It's crazy.'

Rogan joked by calling the pups 'nature's cute little murderers.'

Lamm said the wolves are starting to exhibit behaviors of their species, like hunting and socializing.

He also revealed the company plans to 'make two or three more.'

However, critics believe Colossal Biosciences is wasting time and funds on its effort.

Dr Patrick Weaber, a scientist at Bern University in Switzerland, said on Bluesky: 'Do we have the right to play God? De-extinction is fascinating but risks creating dangerous illusions: that we can undo the damage we've done. 

'Limited funds are a struggle. We should focus on habitat protection, anti-poaching, & keeping species from vanishing.'

Lamm has addressed such comments in the past, saying in 2024: 'Did Australians play God in the late 1800s when they [began to eradicate] the [Tasmanian tiger]?

'I would argue, yes. Do we play God when we pollute the environment, accelerate human-caused climate change, or cut down the rainforest? I would say, yes.'

Colossal is working to bring back other animals, such as the woolly mammoth.

It has already sequenced the woolly mammoth's genome, and in March, its scientists managed to create 'woolly mice' in a major step toward bringing this ancient giant back.

They are also making strides toward resurrecting the dodo and the Tasmanian tiger by using museum specimens to reconstruct their genomes. 

The controversial project aims to restore species that have been eradicated at least in part due to human activities such as overhunting, habitat destruction and pollution, according to Colossal's website.

The company claims it is humanity's responsibility to bring these species back. 'We're committed to rectifying the past and rehabilitating nature on a global scale,' the website states. 

Its experts say that reintroducing these animals to the wild will be beneficial to the environment in many ways, such as rebuilding ecosystems and combatting climate change. 

De-extincting the woolly mammoth, they claim, could combat global warming by restoring Arctic grassland ecosystems and help protect endangered species like the  Asian elephant — the mammoths' closest living relative. 

George Church, a Harvard geneticist and Colossal co-founder, told NPR that the woolly mammoth program could lead to new ways to expand the Asian elephant's habitat and help scientists study them.

But some other experts aren't so sure. 'I'd argue that the broader effort to de-extinct the mammoth is — as far as conservation efforts go — incredibly misguided,' conservation scientist Nitik Sekar wrote in an recent article for Ars Technica.

'Ultimately, Colossal's efforts won't end up being about helping wild elephants or saving the climate. They'll be about creating creatures for human spectacle, with insufficient attention to the costs and opportunity costs to human and animal life.'

Karl Flessa, a professor of geosciences at the University of Arizona, has also expressed skepticism about the project.

'What are you going to get out of this? First of all, I think you're going to get a bit of a freak show in a zoo somewhere,' he told NPR.

'And then if you're going to release a herd into the Arctic tundra, is that herd going to go marching off to its second extinction in the face of global warming?' he asked.

Despite these concerns, Colossal has amassed $435 million in funding since the company launched in 2021, and plans to leverage this money to further its goal of bringing more species back from extinction.